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today's leftovers

Submitted by srlinuxx on Mon, 12/01/2008 - 23:12.

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re: Sexism

Submitted by vonskippy on Mon, 12/01/2008 - 23:56.

Bah. Sexism in most of Europe and America (at least in Science and Engineering fields), doesn't exist.

What does exist is the difference in how men and women perceive (and perform) their jobs.

Men see their jobs as an extension of themselves. Therefore they compete to be the very best - even if it doesn't necessarily move them up the "job ladder".

Women see a job as simply that, a job, and they ALWAYS put their families first.

So when promotions are due, who do you pick?

The man, who worked 90 hour weeks, jumped on the plane to solve a remote crisis, worked thru nights, weekends, holidays, kids birthday, school play, colds, and did whatever it took to get the project done.

Or the woman, who worked 40 hours, except for the 2 hours when little Timmy had a dentist appointment, or the 1/2 day when Susi was home from school with a tummy ache, or the weekend off even though the project was already late because she had to sew Julies school play costume, or the 3 months off during busy season when she was out on maternity leave, or all the nights she couldn't work late because she had to be home to help the kids with their homework, and the business trip she did NOT take because her husband can't fix dinner, etc, etc, etc, etc.

So it's not sexist problem - it's a performance (or lack thereof) problem.

Whether its a good thing or not - men are DEDICATED to the job, and women (except for a very few rare examples) have other priorities - and it shows when promotions are decided.

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Old ways, old thinking

Submitted by silverthehedgehog on Tue, 12/02/2008 - 03:27.

Disclaimer: I am male, I do not yet have children, but I am not a single-minded automaton and I do know how to prepare various dishes from separate raw ingredients.

Did you read the article? :>

P.S. My older sister is one of the hardest-working people that I know, and she is also quite successful in her profession.

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Hogwash

Submitted by mudcat on Tue, 12/02/2008 - 07:42.

Your simplistic and inaccurate reasoning does not fit what I have observed in my near half century on this planet. It is either outdated thinking or an argument based on little real world experience. While I've seen my fair share of incompetence from individuals of both genders, I've certainly seen a preponderance of dimwitted "dude-ism" ("chick-ism" is also a problem, but on nowhere near the scale) torpedo a good number of businesses and projects. I personally know of one operation (~40-50 employees) that is facing serious struggles, even as I write this. The place is run like a big fraternity ("Dude, chill... we can get to that, tomorrow"), with an unmistakable bias toward male employees. In my opinion, the failures are a byproduct of the mode of operation and the failure to heed the practical "nose to the grindstone" perspective of at least a couple of the women in the operation.

Any good business will evaluate on results, not on "breadwinner" status or some misplaced sense of male camaraderie and/or competition. I know many childless couples, some where the female outearns (or at some point has outearned) the male. These women are superior at their jobs and surpass most individuals of any gender. And, I know of at least three cases, where the male freelances while the female has the "anchor" job (two of the couples have children). As long as they produce results, people choose (or in some cases don't even have the choice) to live their lives as they see fit. And, their shouldn't be a gender penalty for it.

However, this doesn't mean that I favor any kind of government regulation. Businesses need to get smarter about human interactions and help enable environments where the best workers are always allowed to succeed.

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